The Pros & Cons of Working With Friends & Family

Highlights & Takeaways

Working with friends/family is not for everyone

Being able to successfully work with your friends/family requires a certain mentality

As with everything, there are pros & cons to working with friends and/or family

Episode 82 Transcript

[music]

Brendan: Welcome back to another episode of the Drips & Draughts Podcast. As always I’m Brendan Hanson. Cary’s in studio and we’ve got the intern with us as well.

[laughter]

Ricky: The intern.

Brendan: Almost feel like downgraded yourself.

Ricky: This is as long as you know I downgraded and I called myself an intern, not you.

Brendan: Yes, you did. You went from being the doctor.

Cary: PhD.

Ricky: I like it. No expectations.

Brendan: From the intern.

Ricky: Yes.

Brendan: You could come with something revolutionary. Yes, Cary and I often get asked how is it working with your family? How is it working with your brother? I know we’ve got some clients who are family businesses so we thought maybe we’d do a little series on how it is working with your family. Yes, should have some fun with this today. We printed up a couple articles we found online. One has a bunch of reasons why you should work with family and the other has a bunch of reasons why you shouldn’t work with family.

Cary: We’ll see if we get into any fights by the end of the episode. Just start throwing blows but —

Brendan: Have Ricky be the narrator go through this list and yes, hopefully, we have a little fun with that. Anything else happening in the news?

Ricky: Dodgers.

Brendan: World Series.

Cary: Dodgers star.

Brendan: Yes, for all of you new listeners, we are from Southern California. Those of you from Chicago and Illinois, we apologize.

Cary: It’s our turn now.

Ricky: Last time was 88.

Cary: 88, yes.

Ricky: Kirk Gibson home run, yes.

Brendan: That was a long time ago.

Ricky: I remember watching that with my dad, jumping up and down on the vinyl couches.

Brendan: I wanted to bring up. I got this email today and it says this is Daily Coffee News introducing the 2018 Roasters of the Year.

Cary: Yes, I saw that too. I didn’t get to read it yet.

Brendan: I haven’t either. I just thought like was that a typo or are they really already introducing. We’re not even in 2018, how do you know that they’re the Roasters of the Year?

Cary: I don’t know. Me again just be looking stupid because we don’t know this type of stuff.

Ricky: It’s like cars.

Brendan: Yes, you just do it.

Cary: That’s right.

Brendan: You just do it super early.

Ricky: It is like the 2018 Toyota Camry.

Cary: That’s right.

Brendan: It’s out now. It’s frustrating. It’s probably like the mall too, you go to the mall now it’s quite decorated for Christmas already.

Cary: It is.

Ricky: That was last– yes. Three months ago.

Brendan: It’s absurd. Just getting earlier and earlier. Anyways, I hope that’s about it. Let’s [unintelligible 00:03:19].

[music]

Voice over: Thanks to our sponsor cold brew Avenue. The first stainless steel cold brew system that has reinvented how you cold brew. Easily brew up to 50 gallons using their 100% reusable stainless steel filter system. Visit them at coldbrewavenue.com to learn more.

[music]

Brendan: It does. I might just [unintelligible 00:03:54] us talking in there.

Speaker 1: There you go.

Brendan: All right, so we’re back and we’ve got some lists.

Cary: Here we go.

Ricky: All right, so should I start with the nine reasons why working with family and friends is a good idea or why not?

Cary: Why.

Ricky: Why. Okay.

Brendan: Why it’s a good idea?

Cary: Yes, start with that.

Ricky: Okay.

Brendan: Where is this one from?

Ricky: It is from ink.com Eric Holdsclaw.

Brendan: Eric Holdsclaw.

Ricky: Yes. Okay, number one, you work with people you trust.

Brendan: Yes. I trust majority of my family.

Cary: [laughs] What’s that look?

[laughter]

Cary: The majority who just stares at me.

Brendan: Out of the corner of my eye.

Ricky: Yes.

Cary: Trust is definitely important running a business.

Ricky: Yes, well, you know to whether or not. You know your family, I know my family, you know they’re good and they’re bad. Number two, your friends and family have a vested interest in the company. I’d say that’s for sure the case with you guys.

Brendan: I think for any entrepreneur I think that would be the case. If we both went to work for Bank of America, I don’t think that would necessarily carry over.

Cary: No, I worked nine to five job for 10 years and I can tell you the amount of work I do for our company on a daily basis is far greater than I did for another company just because of your motivation level. If it is something you’re truly passionate about, you tend to work harder for it.

Ricky: Yes, for sure if you’re passionate about something. You are going to for sure work hard for it.

Brendan: Makes sense.

Ricky: Three, shared core values.

Cary: We don’t have any–

Brendan: We should write down our mission statement.

Cary: I know. I was going to say we don’t have a mission statement or we don’t do goals really. We’ve talked about it but —

Brendan: Yes, who is [unintelligible 00:05:58] Every time you place an order with them you get their order email and then the bottom of it has one of their core values on it. It is a good idea. [unintelligible 00:06:07] price spends some time to do that.

Ricky: The company I work for has seven core values and we base most of our philosophy when you hired in and as you are working for the company. They’re always bringing those core values up. The number one value is integrity in our company and it’s huge. It goes a long way because when you hire people in they have to know that and that’s ingrained into them so it helps a lot.

Brendan: It’s nice.

Ricky: It is. Number four, family-owned businesses have a long-term perspective.

Brendan: How so?

Cary: I like, I mean, I think —

Brendan: Thinking for the future, I guess so. Doing some planning I guess.

Cary: That too especially if you’re a family-owned business and let’s say it’s just your family running it, I would say a lot of times you have help from family members that aren’t necessarily on the books so you’re able to keep overhead down a little bit. It’s a little bit more —

Ricky: Yes.

Brendan: Like you take stuff [inaudible 00:07:16]

Cary: Intern. That’s right, I know I have my five-year-old son unbagging hundreds of parts for us.

Brendan: Right. And the girls have come in plenty of times they helped out with things. They [unintelligible 00:07:28] tears off the chest. He comes in your big time.

Ricky: Your two sons might have to fight over this company.

Cary: That’s right. [crosstalk]

Brendan: Arm wrestle.

Cary: Yes.

Ricky: Greater job security, number five.

Brendan: Yes. You got to fire yourself. Could you imagine?

Cary: I know.

Ricky: Who if — never mind like I would like to ask that question.

Brendan: Who would fire you?

Cary: You’re fired. You know have a lot of Donald Trump. You’re fired stuff in here.

Brendan: We need sound bites.

Cary: Yes, we do in the sketch board.

Ricky: Number Six, better and more flexible working conditions.

Cary: That’s for sure.

Brendan: Absolutely. Yes, I love that I can come in a couple hours late if I want and I can also make that up on the tail end, I can stay late it’s not necessarily I have to be here from certain hours. When I have had jobs for other people in the past, I always found that to be difficult. Just the way that I’m wired I think. It wasn’t necessary in my mind to be there for this set amount of time.

I felt like I could have been there overnight doing the same job. Actually, pride doing it better because it would mean less distractions but, yes I think you definitely have a lot more freedom in making of your schedule.

Cary: For sure.

Ricky: I would think too. It’s like if you have a job like a nine to five job and it’s not a family run business, when if you have to stay like later hours, it’s much more or going business trips, it’s much more difficult to be away from your family but whereas if you have a family run business, you feel there’s more vested interest from the rest of the family. They have more of understanding, they can maybe come down and help you too and you guys stay up late drinking beer, eating pizza, getting whatever you need done. It seems like it would be more fun to–

Cary: Yes.

Ricky: So now–

Brendan: Yes, it is.

Cary: Yes. I know it’s frustrating when you’re called to do overtime or extra time that you’re not necessarily paid for at a company that when you’re like, “Dude, I should be home with my family right now. This is not cool.”

Ricky: Yes, it’s that peace of mind too they can always if you miss your family or whatever, they can always come down and see you at the office especially at place like this, you could sleep here.

Brendan: Yes, there’s been times where we put in like super long days like 10-12 hour days. Getting here to unload, sometimes we showed up at what four five AM. A couple days that one week is–

Cary: Like that day we produced the coffee video, that was a long day. We pretty much pretty filmed and produced that thing in one day.

Brendan: He’s talking about coffee, [unintelligible 00:10:21] coffee.

Cary: He said coffee.

Brendan: Actually, I was talking to somebody yesterday who ordered a keg rater and said, “Yes, I will definitely want to do the nitrile coffee and then on the other faucet I want to have the helium coffee.”

Cary: I hear it Brendan.

Brendan: I just start laughing.

Cary: He’s just die laughing in here.

[laughter]

Brendan: I go, “Oh.” Actually that helium coffee was an April Fool’s joke.

Cary: [crosstalk]

Ricky: Dude, are you serious?

Brendan: Was it really? Yes. There’s total joke. He goes, “That was a well produced video.”

[laughter]

Ricky: Dr. Von Rickstein didn’t give it away?

Brendan: That’s like Cary’s saying. Cary was like, “Didn’t he get it when he saw Dr. Von Rickstein?

Cary: He just, none of the audio matches up with our mouth in that with the whole movie. The whole thing.

[laughter]

Cary: It was fun.

Brendan: It’s funny though. We still get like one or two inquiries a month.

Cary: Yes, we do.

Ricky: That’s awesome.

Brendan: All right.

Ricky: Number seven, greater loyalty.

Brendan: Yes. Say to the business?

Ricky: To the business.

Brendan: To the business, to the employees, I would say yes to everything.

Cary: Yes, true.

Ricky: Like for me, like as it says right here because I’m learning a lot from you guys how to do some of the stuff. A family member makes up in loyalty what they lack in skills, which I would say is for sure the case. Yes.

Cary: The intern’s here whenever needed.

[laughter]

Ricky: I think you guys had three different days this week. You asked me to come down.

[laughter]

Brendan: Just kept balancing you [unintelligible 00:11:58] . “No, no. Come Thursday.”

Ricky: So that’s not going to work, yes. Number eight, you know what you’re getting.

Cary: Yes.

Brendan: Yes, I think so. If you’re working with family or family member or friend typically you’ve got a long relationship with either of those.

Cary: Yes, you know how that person works.

Brendan: Yes.

Ricky: Number nine. Family businesses raise entrepreneurs.

Brendan: I’d say so. Our grandfather was an entrepreneur. He started a — actually it must run in our blood. He started a business with his four brothers. Yes, the Kenny brother. Kenny brothers wall coverings.

Cary: He did really well. Our dad is always been an entrepreneur pretty much. Worked for multiple companies but yes it’s kind of —

Brendan: It’s in the DNA.

Ricky: I think it is.

Brendan: Yes. DNA meaning, do not attempt.

[laughter]

Cary: Just don’t like being told what to do by other people I guess. [crosstalk]

[laughter]

Brendan: Against the grain.

Cary: Doing my own thing.

Brendan: Against the grain. Yes, I think all those make a lot of sense. I’ve been an entrepreneur now for, gosh — 17, 16, 17 years.

Cary: That’s crazy.

Brendan: Doing my own thing. And yes, I definitely had some rough patches especially through the crash in like 08, 09 just struggling to make ends meet. But through all that those tough times I learned a lot and also I just couldn’t find it to go get a job, and work for somebody else, just couldn’t do it.

Ricky: I would think too in a family business the other thing I don’t think this really addressed is the ability to — because you’re so comfortable with your family, you can confront them on certain issues that you couldn’t with somebody that wasn’t part of your family. That’s the way I am with my family anyways like I can confront them on certain issues. I don’t — sometimes it’s like if they get mad they get mad and you can kind of work things out, and make things better.

Brendan: Yes, you can be super open.

Ricky: Super open, yes.

Cary: I wouldn’t like Bren just shows up in flip flops. I’m like, “Bren that is not dress attire.”

Brendan: You need clothes to shoes in a warehouse.”

[laughter]

Brendan: So now he got a pair of boots hanging on the way to the warehouse.

[laughter]

Ricky: So this other one is — this one’s more based on friendship than family. But I guess you can apply —

Brendan: It kind of go hand and hand.

Ricky: Yes.

Brendan: My prior business I worked with a friend, a long time friend. A lot of it’s similar, in terms of, like where we were just talking about openness being able to be open with somebody.

Ricky: Yes, like a long-term friend.

Brendan: Yes.

Ricky: So this one’s by lifehack.org. Lewis Humphries wrote it.

Cary: What’s the title of it?

Brendan: I can read that myself. Have it open here. 15 reasons why you should not start businesses with friends-

Cary: [laughs] Look at that image.

Brendan: – or family.

Cary: That chick is screaming at someone just pointing a finger, “It’s your fault.”

Brendan: This is looks like a day in our office.

[laughter]

Brendan: There’s a lot of finger pointing.

Ricky: So number one, friendship does not translate into business compatibility.

Brendan: Well, I don’t think you would just jump into business with a friend if you guys didn’t have anything in common or didn’t have the same like goals, and values, and —

Cary: Right.

Brendan: I think if you’re going to start business with friend or family obviously you’re both on the same page.

Ricky: Yes, that’s probably part of it too. I’ve known people that have gone into business with friends and they were completely delusional about what they wanted to do and it was about what they want to do not what the other person wanted to do.

Cary: There’s no like–

Ricky: There’s no openness or communication about what was going to happen.

Cary: It’s like they have one thing in common they both want to do, this idea or do this together and — but where their minds at or what their–

Brendan: Different ideas on how they’re going to get there.

Cary: Yes, how they’re going to run it.

Brendan: Yes, exactly.

Ricky: Egos for sure get involved. Number two, friends and family rarely plan for worst case scenarios.

Brendan: I don’t even understand.

Cary: [laughs]

Ricky: Do you want me to–

Brendan: Yes, just looking through this. US Attorney Mark Coller specializes in disputes which unfold between friends and family members.

Cary: Is this having like buy-sell agreements in place, things like that.

[crosstalk]

Brendan: Consider all the potential of worst case scenario.

Cary: If one person wants to leave.

Brendan: Probably.

Cary: How the company is valued. Having all that stuff in order prior.

Brendan: Yes, I guess that makes sense because when you start a business, you’re not thinking like I’m going to want to walk away from this in one year or I want to work on it for a year and try to sell the company. You’re not necessarily thinking that way and then once a year comes in, one partner might be thinking that, the other might not. I guess that makes sense.

Ricky: Number three, it can be difficult to create clearly defined business roles. It goes along.

Brendan: It could be but anyhow for us at least we’ve just fallen into roles. We have a lot of overlap but I think there’s definitely–

Cary: You definitely know your strengths. I could see where people get like — I’ve seen in the workplace where people get headstrong and they think they’re really good at one thing but someone else is better suited for the job. It always goes back to an ego thing. I feel like where people can’t just say, “Yes, you do that, you’re better at that.” How we work is, there’s stuff Bren does that totally over my head. There’s no way in hell I could do it but then there’s stuff I do that he could probably still do.

[laughter]

Ricky: Are you as good on the design side as Darius?

Brendan: Absolutely not.

Ricky: Because I watch him do some of that stuff-

Brendan: Yes. So creative.

Ricky: – and I’m like geez.

Brendan: Yes.

Ricky: Yes here.

Brendan: It would take me like 40 times as long if I could even do it. It’s night and day.

Ricky: Yes, you guys complement each other really well that way.

Brendan: Absolutely.

Ricky: I think a lot of this has to do with ego too, right? Has a lot of having humility with when you’re not able to do something to ask somebody else for help. Or be willing to let that person–

Brendan: Well, you’ll love that book that I just gave you that Principles by Ray Dalio

[crosstalk]

Brendan: It’s awesome just reading that, being a small business owner reading that. He talks about how their company culture is just radical open-mindedness and when they have meetings, everybody in the company has a say. But they basically wait everybody’s opinion based on their, they call it Believability Factor for that specific topic. For design, Cary would be like a 10 out of 10. I might be a four out of 10, you might be a four out of 10.

Ricky: I’d be 0.8 [crosstalk].

Brendan: Yes, if we’re voting on something designed. Cary’s vote would carry the most weight there.

Cary: Interesting.

Brendan: Then if we’re talking about maybe programming, I would have more weight in that category. It’s pretty cool though look through that book and how this guy’s not only run his company but grown it into just like in his book behemoth. Very interesting stuff.

Ricky: Do you see yourself doing some of those things already?

Brendan: Yes. I’ve read his original manuscript which I just gave you a while back and now I got his new book going back through it. Typically, when I read a book I see how I can implement it personally just in my life first. Sometimes in business and then if I think there’s really good ideas then I’ll share them with Cary or with you or anybody who I’m working with.

Ricky: Cool.

Brendan: Yes.

Ricky: Number four, your business goals may differ from those of your partner. It’s kind of the same as number three, right?

Brendan: Yes. At least like what I touched on is how — maybe I want to start this business to sell it after a year and Cary wanted to do this for eternity or vice versa. When you’re starting a business, you don’t necessarily think that far down the line. You just think like, “I’ve got this great idea or I’ve got something I’m a passionate about I want to pursue.”

Cary: Just keep going on it.

Brendan: Yes, a lot of times you’ll just jump in.

Ricky: Number five, the price of failure is far higher.

Cary: Yes. If it doesn’t work out and you burn friendships or get left with a sour taste in your mouth because of it. It’s not like working for a company where you’re with employees you don’t know really and you just walk away. So what?

Brendan: Well, that and as a company if we were to fail, it’s not like, if I was struggling bad and needed some help I couldn’t go to you because you’d be in the same shoes. Especially, if it’s a whole family that’s involved in a business. If that company fails, everybody is one hard times altogether that that makes a lot of sense.

Ricky: That has scare you. It says 50% of all small businesses fail during the first 24 months of trading.

Brendan: Woo-hoo, we made it.

Ricky: You guys made it.

[laughter]

Ricky: Number six, financial arrangements and friendships make for uneasy bedfellows.

Brendan: What? What’s a bedfellow?

Ricky: I don’t know.

[laughter]

[crosstalk]

Brendan: Here it is, bedfellow. A person who shares a bed with another.

Ricky: What?

Brendan: [crosstalk] with your wife.

Ricky: I got you. I got you.

Cary: I see like a guy and girlfriends start a business together.

Brendan: Yes, that could be tough.

Ricky: Depending on the relationship.

Brendan: If you could leave everything at the office and go home and go about your business, that’s great. I think there’s a lot of people, men and women who just can’t separate the two and compartmentalize.

Cary: We were talking about that earlier. It’s hard to — as you know small business owners to turn it off. I go home and I’m checking emails responding to clients at all hours. I should just be totally dedicated to my family so it’s tough, distracting.

Brendan: Yes, it takes discipline if you are going to turn off and just say, “Okay, I’m out of the office and I’m done.”

Cary: The world will keep spinning.

Ricky: This is funny. This is what we’re talking about earlier at lunch. Number seven, you may struggle to plan holidays and breakaways.

Brendan: Yes, I was shocked I met with Erik from Try That Coffee this past weekend and then Luke from Australia. He has a cold brew company called That Cold Stuff, he took two weeks to come up and train Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in San Diego. Just two weeks he’s in San Diego like joined in.

Ricky: But Mecca.

Brendan: I couldn’t tell you the last time I ever took two weeks off of anything. It was probably winter break and last year college.

[laughter]

Ricky: I was just going to say college or high school when you’re forced not to come to school.

Brendan: Yes. There’s definitely — For sure, there’s pros and cons to be an entrepreneur but yes that’s — how is that worded?

Ricky: It was a–

Brendan: Struggle to plan holidays and breaks. For sure. We definitely get breaks. We’ve been lucky, we’ve been able to cover one another. If I take off, Cary covers for a couple days vice versa. It’s definitely harder than if I where working somewhere and I had paid time off, I would be time offing for sure.

[laughter]

Ricky: Number eight, you will place a huge strain on your finances.

Cary: Yes and no. If you’re not in your grinding and developing, you don’t have employees doing it for you.

Brendan: Yes, and a lot of people will empty their savings accounts to start a company or start a business. When we started Brew PS-

Cary: I emptied my savings. [laughs]

Brendan: – [crosstalk] just to get a whole bunch of home brewing here but luckily that was small change compared to what a lot of people do.

Cary: For sure.

Brendan: Since that point, we’ve incrementally grown. We’ve been lucky where we’ve been. We’ve grown conservatively I’d say.

Cary: Yes.

Brendan: We never took out loans that we couldn’t handle. We’ve taken some small loans but paid it back faster than scheduled which is nice. I think you could definitely put a strain on your finances.

Cary: For sure.

Brendan: That is for sure.

Ricky: Number nine, friends and family business ventures usually lack expertise.

Brendan: Maybe, not in this case, I don’t say but I could see how some people get a business idea or want to do something and just dive in without fully understanding a topic or situation that they’re jumping into.

Cary: I’ve seen that also. Yes, like on Shark Tank, I see it where it’s a family that gets involved and it’s like who’s making the financial decisions and it’s like, “Oh well, this person is in my family.” Why? No background it’s like no, because they need someone to and it’s like, “Well, I’m pretty good at math [laughs] it’s like it’s not good at an answer. You’ll be running the business.

Brendan: Right.

Ricky: Number 10, emotions can often override good business sense.

Brendan: Again, I don’t know, I think I’m pulling myself away from a lot of these just because I feel like I’m level-headed. I feel like Cary’s pretty level-headed.

Ricky: Again, I feel like every one of these things boils back to ego and [crosstalk] because yeah anytime someone has an idea it’s never like shut down like, “No, that’s stupid” or it’s more like, “Well yes, would that work? What’s that going to take?

Brendan: We’re pretty open with each other. We have conflicting ideas, will talk through both and we pick what we think is going to be best.

Ricky: It seems in anything you do if you have too much ego and not enough humility, you’re probably going to fail at it no matter if you’re involved with a family member or a friend or not. Number 11, it can be hard to appraise your partner’s performance.

Brendan: I still have time to do it.

[laughter]

Ricky: I guess that’s a good thing, right? That’s good. Number 12, relationship breakdowns can divide entire families and friendship groups. I’ve seen that happen before for sure, but again it goes back to that ego and humility.

Brendan: Yes. I don’t know, I’ve probably seen it like personally not outside of business a lot more than in business, but when people just have to get the last word in or they have to be right, that’s a great way to ruin a relationship. Business is the same thing you could lose a lot of respect.

Ricky: That’s why I was going to say it, whether it’s a business or a family you’ve seen it. I know people who are in families and it’s really sad. I’ll see them and they’ll say, “I don’t talk to my sister anymore or I don’t talk to my mom and dad anymore.” Usually, that comes down to somebody again, too much ego, not enough humility.

Brendan: For sure. Quick pause on this at the UPS guy and Cary’s back from the UPS guy.

Cary: I’m here.

Ricky: All right. Number 13, relationships can suffer even when the business venture succeeds. Yes, I could see that happening.

Brendan: Just back to ego and probably and greed.

Cary: And greed more so there, because if you’re succeeding chances are you have money, you get lazy, you’re not putting in the work that needs to be put in.

Ricky: Number 14, changing circumstances can upset the equilibrium of any partnership.

Brendan: Yes. I could see, I don’t know, if you’re not on the same page with somebody or you don’t have like a mutual respect. Then yes, I think that absolutely can happen. For instance, when Logan was born I really only took a day, two days off, but outside of that, I was probably in the office later in the morning and I was leaving earlier in the evening for a while. Luckily, Cary picked up the slack for me, if he had problems he kept it quiet.

Cary: No, he took literally a day or two off when his son was born. If I have another kid, I’m going to tell Bren, “Peace I need my 30 days.”

Brendan: Two months.

[laughter]

Ricky: You’re definitely going to need your 30 days.

Cary: Hey Bren, sign my paid family medical leave.

Ricky: 10 days for each kid. [laughs]

Cary: Send them into the state. Yes, really.

Ricky: Were you going to say something Bren? I’m sorry, I cut you.

Brendan: Yes, I think obviously circumstances change outside of business. If they do, it just goes back to being openness, having openness.

Cary: What the —

Brendan: UPS guy is back. Pause [unintelligible 00:31:02] again.

Ricky: You forgot to sign.

Cary: Back again.

Brendan: Yes, we’re back again.

[laughter]

Ricky: You should have the UPS guy come in and podcast.

Cary: Yes. This guy’s actually pretty funny.

Brendan: Or normal guy?

Cary: No, not the normal guy. He’s a different guy. He’s pretty funny.

Brendan: Normal guy is not funny.

Cary: He’s a talker though.

Brendan: He is. Yes, we can get him on in an episode.

Ricky: All right. Number 15, the business may not always be a priority.

Cary: Yes.

Brendan: Yes. Maybe not. I think you could say that about any employee. I think you said that about most employees versus I think most people go to jobs because they need money. They’re not vested in it. I think anytime you start a business with a family member or friend, you’re going to have — the business is going to be a lot more of a priority than it is if they were just going to work somewhere.

Ricky: That’s more fun. I think it’s more fun, I don’t know if fun is the right word but there’s more of a willingness to grind and be disciplined at it whereas when somebody is — when you’re forced to get up at four o’clock in the morning or five o’clock in the morning because you have to be at this place at a certain time because if you don’t you will lose your job.

Brendan: Yes. It’s like when you’re a kid you are going to school you are like, “I don’t want to go to school.” You can get that mentality about going to a job. But if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re working with your family or with a friend, I think there’s a lot more excitement in going to work.

Cary: You get to see the fruits of your labor a little bit more because you’re seeing the value of your work ethic coming back in real numbers like if I work harder, I’m seeing our company grow, I’m seeing more money come in. Whereas if you work for another company, it’s like I can work really hard but you don’t always see all those background numbers or like what is this really done for the company me putting that extra 20% in? Yes, seeing having your eyes on all that stuff definitely is rewarding.

Ricky: You’re using your creativity to — At a normal job you don’t use much creativity. Some jobs you do like teaching and things like that but you guys really use your creativity here and I think that’s a huge factor.

Brendan: Yes and we are — speaking of rewarding, the podcast, we get so much feedback. We get emails like, “Hey, I just downloaded every episode of podcast and listen to them all over the weekends.” It’s crazy you think that someone is [unintelligible 00:33:48] through 80 episodes now that we’ve done it downright. Have we not started getting feedback like that we probably will still be doing this. Then we do videos, Cary’s been putting a lot of videos out, the e-books that we’ve done, we get a lot of good feedback on. Yes, it’s definitely rewarding. Definitely. All right, we’ve been through both lists, let’s drop a little ad then we can just do a quick overview on pros and cons.

[music]

Voice over: If you’re looking to learn more about Cool Brewer or Draft Coffee, make sure you check out Keg Outlet’s Ultimate Guide to Cold Brew Coffee and serving coffee on draft. Buy hey, don’t just take my word for it. Here’s Daniel Browning from the Brownie Beverage Company in Marfa, Texas.

Daniel: As I got on the Internet and started looking around and I found Keg Outlet’s Ultimate Guide to Cold Brew Coffee and read it a couple more times than I have read anything in my life. That was pretty much all the research I needed.

Voice over: If you’re looking to start your journey with cold brew or draft coffee, check out The Ultimate Guide to Cold Brew Coffee and serving coffee on draft. A free 34-page ebook offered at kegoutlet.com. You can get there through the Drips & Draughts website by going to dripsanddraughts.com/ultimateguide.

[music]

Ricky: All right, so that about does it with our A Family Business episode.

Brendan: Nine reasons why working with family and friends is a good idea and 15 reasons. [laughter]

Brendan: What’s the title of this one? 15 reasons why you should not start business with friends or family where at it.

Cary: I want to use that as the podcast cover photo but probably get some right for it.

Brendan: We’re getting at it.

Cary: Reversing the kiss. [crosstalk]

Brendan: But so you think because there is 15 reasons you shouldn’t start a business with family or friends that that’s the correct answer.

Cary: No listen, every one of those you shouldn’t want boils down to, like we kept talking about humility and greed, just the stuff that you know.

Brendan: That aren’t just — They’re not good qualities.

Cary: Right, right.

Ricky: I think anytime you have a business whether it’s with family or friends, it’s going to eventually become your family and friends, and you need to have the right people around you. Lesser weird because you can focus on one thing or the other. So I choose to focus on the good things.

Brendan: Well, yes so obviously Lewis Humphries from lifehack.org had a bad experience.

Ricky: He’s a pessimist.

Brendan: It’s a bad experience working with his family and friends.

Ricky: He’s a glass half empty kind of guy.

[laughter]

Brendan: Then you’ve got Eric Holtzclaw from Inc who — he’s having a great time working with his family and friends. So he’s got the nine reasons why.

Ricky: He loves his family and this other guy hates his family.

[laughter]

Cary: Just put it in the box right there.

Brendan: Yes. Based on all my experiences having worked with a good friend for 15 years, and now having worked with Cary for, gosh, how long we’ve been? We’ve been in the same office together for a year and a half. We’ve been doing this for about seven years now. Kind of how I decide to start. I think working with family and friends is a good idea assuming that you can be open. You guys can share goals, values and, yes, I don’t see any reason not to.

Cary: Yes.

Brendan: Yes.

Ricky: Yes.

Brendan: All right. Well, I guess that’s going to do it for this episode. Cary, thanks for being in the studio, intern Ricky.

[laughter]

Brendan: Thanks for moderating that conversation. I’m Brendan Hanson and we’ll see you next week on Drips & Draughts Podcast.